Is Brady best QB in the NFL?

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Is Brady best QB in the NFL?

YES
8
28%
NO
21
72%
 
Total votes: 29

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Is Brady best QB in the NFL?

Postby TSBGOD » Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:16 pm

HAHA

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Re: Is Brady best QB in the NFL?

Postby daboy8821 » Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:13 am

best= most overrated,

definately YES

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Re: Is Brady best QB in the NFL?

Postby TSBGOD » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:48 pm

daboy8821 wrote:best= most overrated,

definately YES


How can you win 3 Super bowls, 14-5 in the playoffs and 2 NFL MVPS and be overrated? HUH? Brady is the best QB in the NfL, slightly ahead of Manning, Brees and Rodgers. His record speaks for itself.

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Re: Is Brady best QB in the NFL?

Postby daboy8821 » Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:11 pm

TSBGOD wrote:
daboy8821 wrote:best= most overrated,

definately YES


How can you win 3 Super bowls, 14-5 in the playoffs and 2 NFL MVPS and be overrated? HUH? Brady is the best QB in the NfL, slightly ahead of Manning, Brees and Rodgers. His record speaks for itself.


you named the 3 I would put brady behind

i thought you were doin poll best qb of all time,lol
hes not best in league right now, let alone all time,lol
you're funny

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Re: Is Brady best QB in the NFL?

Postby TDO » Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:14 pm

Brady
Manning
Brees
Roethlisberger
Rodgers
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Re: Is Brady best QB in the NFL?

Postby AHake21 » Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:41 pm

Really Gary? Have you ever watched Ben? He's probably a bottom half QB. The ONLY reason he has any decent stats is cause he is big and makes lucky plays and chucks up the long ball and has people run under (just like Brady when he had MOSS)

Rodgers is the QB I would take to lead my team.

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Re: Is Brady best QB in the NFL?

Postby TDO » Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:07 pm

I am not a fan of Big Ben, nor would i consider him elite on stats alone, but if Tsbgod is going to include awards to help elevate Brady, you can't deny Ben's rings either, even though it was mostly due from the defense. I compare Big Ben to Favre's career. Nothing more than a field general.
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Re: Is Brady best QB in the NFL?

Postby bruddog » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:43 pm

Brady's record speaks for the entire team. I firmly believe there are a number of QB's you could have swapped in the Pats super bowl runs and the pats still would have won 3 super bowls.



Funny how Brady has looked normal ( in terms of wins and losses) in the playoffs ever since the PATS defense went from elite to average.


Peyton Manning (7-6) 0 336 510 65.9% 3913 YDS 19TD 13INT (2.5%) 90.8 Rating 7.67 Yards per attempt
Ben Roethlisberger (9-2) 0 191 310 61.6% 2465 YDS 17TD 12INT (3.8%) 88.7 Rating 7.95 Yards per attempt
Tom Brady (8-5) 0 289 459 63.0% 3043 YDS 24TD 13INT (2.8%) 87.8 Rating 6.63 Yards per attempt

The most ironic thing in Manning's postseason career is the year he won the super bowl and went 4-0 he actually played his some of his worst post season football and the defense decided to play awesome after playing shitty all year.
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Re: Is Brady best QB in the NFL?

Postby daboy8821 » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:56 pm

bruddog wrote:Brady's record speaks for the entire team. I firmly believe there are a number of QB's you could have swapped in the Pats super bowl runs and the pats still would have won 3 super bowls.

Funny how Brady has looked normal ( in terms of wins and losses) in the playoffs ever since the PATS defense went from elite to average.



thats what I try to tell people like tsbgd and others, tom brady isnt the great qb people think he is

their D was very very good along with the best coach Ive ever seen in the NFL, dont like him but he is a great coach.

id take rodgers over brady any day, guy can create when the Oline breaks down, something brady cannot do at all. brady has been behind a great Oline

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Re: Is Brady best QB in the NFL?

Postby bruddog » Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:39 pm

I'm not trying to say Brady is crap either. I'd still want him over the majority of NFL QB's. Rodgers is definitely more mobile as a QB which gives him an edge over Brady. He also plays with better WR's than Brady and the pass defenses in the NFC playoffs have been fairly soft over the past few years.

Honestly I feel like most of the top QB's are fairly interchangeable in terms of true skill. It just all the other factors matter A LOT too:

-What defenses they've played
-How good their own defense and running game is
-How good their coaches and offensive scheme is
-How good their OL and WR's
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Re: Is Brady best QB in the NFL?

Postby daboy8821 » Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:46 pm

no-one said brady is crap. we're talkin about best, best of all time.
when you break it all down,bradys name shouldnt be up there. hes a good qb and will be in hof cause of the rings.

best,best ever-not in my book.
but thats what makes sports,everyones book is different.(see big ben few posts up)

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Re: Is Brady best QB in the NFL?

Postby TDO » Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:55 pm

I woudln't say Brady is the best ever. Without going over the names again i wouldn't say he's top 10.
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Re: Is Brady best QB in the NFL?

Postby edrex333 » Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:48 pm

God he loses one game to a stout NYJ secondary with no one on offense and now its time to take Brady's name off the best ever list. Montana had Rice, Taylor, and Craig ... Manning had Harrison, Wayne and Clark. Who has Brady had? You can say Moss, but I'm thinking it was Brady and the system that made him look good, the guy did nothing in Oakland, and he was only with NE for a few years. Welker has also only been around a few years and is not really that much of a threat, not compared to the guys named anyway.

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Re: Is Brady best QB in the NFL?

Postby TDO » Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:14 am

Not saying Brady isn't one of the best, i just am not sure if he would crack my top 10 all time.
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Re: Is Brady best QB in the NFL?

Postby lightninglarry » Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:32 am

I think its funny he does lose one game and people are putting him as 4th, 5th best currently

Crazy if hes not in your top 2 right now. People can say its the system..is it? Drew Bledsoe was a good qb, but i dont see the Patriots winning the games and titles they did with Bledsoe at the helm. At the same time the "system" argument downplays Brady's ability. He didn't pick who selected him, he didn't select the scheme, etc.....he just played football. I will admit yesterday I didn't see an urgency like maybe you should see down 10 that late in the game, but like ed said, the Jets are no scrubs and thats why I was blown away by the 9 pt spread of the game. I know N.E. beat them bad about a month ago, but thats ludicrous to think the Pats could cover that spread.

In the end Brady is a top 5 qb OF ALL TIME. Along with Manning. I see everyone's liking Rodgers, and Rodgers is a good qb. He's young, lets see if he can continue his consistency for a period of time.

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Re: Is Brady best QB in the NFL?

Postby TDO » Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:56 am

Montana, Young, Elway, Unitas, Marino would rank higher than Brady for me
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Re: Is Brady best QB in the NFL?

Postby bruddog » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:19 am

For who I would want next season. He would be in a grouping of a bunch of guys:

Brees, Rodgers, Rivers, Romo (assuming he's healthy), Brady, P.Manning

In my opinion the true value of all those QB's for next year would be pretty similar. All the other variables: schedule, teamates, coaching, injuries, etc end up affecting the final stat line or win-loss record.

I don't think the Bledsoe argument holds much weight. He Had started to lose something by that season. Also they didn't win much with Bledsoe because they didn't have much of a defense when he was there. Of course they made it TO the super bowl with Parcells but lost to a clearly better GB team.

The patriots super bowl win that year was quite fluky. They beat the Raiders on the infamous tuck rule. They got two special teams TD's to beat the Steelers. And well we all know what happened in the Super Bowl. The DEFENSE forced two huge picks on Warner. To say that they couldn't have done the same thing with Bledsoe doesn't seem like a strong argument. Brady didn't do much to win the Superbowl that year. He just didn't lose it.

Also look at Matt Cassel. Brady gets injured. They plug him in and don't lose much considering the defense was noticeably worse the next season. Cassel gets trade to KC. His first season there he looks pretty turdly. Charlie Weis comes in at offensive coordinator and all of a sudden Cassel looks much better.

I just hate defining a players value by the number of championships. The media loves to do it but its so stupid. Even in basketball where each player has more of an impact. You still have to have a great TEAM.
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Re: Is Brady best QB in the NFL?

Postby TSBGOD » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:49 am

Ok let me say for the record I DISLIKE Tom Brady and the New England Patriots but come on people!


I use to think Peyton Manning was better up to this year. Brady in my mind passed him without a doubt this season as much as I hate to say it. There is Tom Brady and Peyton Manning and then everyone else. Yes Brees and Rodgers are good but they are not Brady or Manning. People say Brady had the defenses to win Super Bowls but not like they were great defenses by any stretch of the imagination. Brady has won 3 SB's with no hall of famers on offense. How many QB's can say that? He won a super bowl with Antowain Smith as RB and Troy Brown as the #1 WR LOL. The guy is the best I ever seen in my time on this planet and I hold Marino in high regards. I am a Marino guy over Montana. Montana is a guy you can say you can put just about any QB on the 49ERS and win a SB. If anyone is overrated it's Joe Montana. Brady has 3 rings, 2 NFL MVPS and had quicksand for legs to scramble. He also probably pulled off the biggest upset in SB history other than maybe the Namath win. Yes he had good defenses and a clutch kicker but he still won 3 SB's and performed very well in them. I can go on and on about brady but his record and what he has done speaks clearly that he is the best QB in the NFL today. He is top 5 of all-time easily. If he won it this year I would of said the best of all-time but he didnt win so I cant really say that. To me Marino was the best QB ever and he never won a ring, that tells you how good I think he really was. Everyone including Daboys speaks volumes of coach Belichek but what kind of coach was he in Cleveland? Belechek was one play away from being fired from the Patriots. If Bledsoe never gets hit by Mo Lewis Coach is fired at the end of that season possibly. Brady saved his job and has made him the greatest coach of all-time. If you look at the Patriots team this player by player the team is average at best. Brady and only Brady makes them a good team. Jets had the better team by far and thats why they won. Every poz favored the JETS other than QB, any arguement on that fact? NO, thank you. You ever see a QB go 340 passes without an interception? You ever see a QB pass for 50 TD's? You ever see a guy pass for 36 TD's and only 4 INTs? 261 TD's and only 103 INTs with a career passer rating of 95.2, simply greatness. You can say all you want about him but he has the best numbers in the history of football if you ask me on a collective scale inclunding SB rings and stats.

TOP 5

Dan Marino
Steve Young
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Brett Favre(before he cameback from retirement!)

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Re: Is Brady best QB in the NFL?

Postby averageTSBPlayer » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:52 pm

Putting Favre on a "Greatest QBs" list is ridiculous. The "just a kid out there, trying to make a play, gunslinger, just a football player" destructive force has had a few good/great seasons ('95-'97), but has certainly not been great otherwise. His streak is impressive for sure. His playoff record and statistics are simply just not good since '97. Since '98, he has 4 wins and 7 losses with 21 TDs and 20 interceptions in the playoffs. In the 7 losses, he has 11 TDs and 19 interceptions. His terrible performances in those games cost his team games. Any QB that has so consistently cost his teams games for so long should not be considered as one of the greatest ever.
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Re: Is Brady best QB in the NFL?

Postby TSBGOD » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:22 pm

averageTSBPlayer wrote:Putting Favre on a "Greatest QBs" list is ridiculous. The "just a kid out there, trying to make a play, gunslinger, just a football player" destructive force has had a few good/great seasons ('95-'97), but has certainly not been great otherwise. His streak is impressive for sure. His playoff record and statistics are simply just not good since '97. Since '98, he has 4 wins and 7 losses with 21 TDs and 20 interceptions in the playoffs. In the 7 losses, he has 11 TDs and 19 interceptions. His terrible performances in those games cost his team games. Any QB that has so consistently cost his teams games for so long should not be considered as one of the greatest ever.


Yea AVG you might be right, I just thought Favre was pretty amazing when he wa sin his prime. Just my personal opinion, I doubt many people agree with me with how mhe ended his career the last few years.

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Re: Is Brady best QB in the NFL?

Postby swampc1 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:37 am

Many of you laughed at sconnie for saying the pitcher gets wins (while he totally disregarded the defense and hitting behind him).

Many of you are also talking about the QB like he is the only player on the field.

A few things to think about:

1) Brady was totally unspectacular for the first 2 superbowls and was merely a care taker while the defense won it. WAY more so than Big Ben.

2) All these quotes crack me up also "Manning had Harrison and Wayne"..... lol@ that!! Harrison did nothing much before Manning got there. All of the sudden Harrison made manning? C'mon. Brady has capable receivers. It is 99% of the time that the QB makes the WR... not the other way around. That is why Hines Ward's numbers exploded once Ben arrived... or why Boldin and Fitzgerald put up huge numbers with Warner but were not very good last year with other QBs throwing it their way. By saying a QB has good WRs is putting the horse before the cart. The QB makes the Great WR most every time.

3) Moss has been awesome from the time he was drafted except for one stint in Oakland. He was spectacular under Cunningham, Culpepper (not good in Oak) then good again in NE... He is now a 30 something WR with HOF credentials. He was definitely good prior to getting to NE. Brady surely did help him though as he set the receiving TD record. He could not have done that in many places.

4) Over the last decade when NE would beat IND in the playoffs people would say stupid things about Brady proving he is better... Really? I would have liked to see him go up against HIS defense and allow manning to throw against his own. Manning wins every time in that situation and amazingly still put up better numbers than Brady while facing a top Defense. I mean top as in one of 20 best Defenses of all time. Probably much higher than that.

5) Brady "winning" playoff games by leading a winning drive in a 13-10 victory that Vinatierri kicks a fg is not that of a good qb. If you can only manage 13pts then you are in the game because of your DEFENSE. Brady gets much credit for some very poor performances.... along with new rules that got him by (tuck rule win anybody?)

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Re: Is Brady best QB in the NFL?

Postby TSBGOD » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:33 am

swampc1 wrote:4) Over the last decade when NE would beat IND in the playoffs people would say stupid things about Brady proving he is better... Really? I would have liked to see him go up against HIS defense and allow manning to throw against his own. Manning wins every time in that situation and amazingly still put up better numbers than Brady while facing a top Defense. I mean top as in one of 20 best Defenses of all time. Probably much higher than that.


Are you serious? Everyone talks about how good the patriots defenses were the SB years, LOL...they were good not great. Brady is better than Manning period. You give Brady Harrison, Wayne and Dallas Clark and Brady would be unstoppable. Mannign has won 1 SB with these guys and he had probably the best tandem of DE's in a very long time. Patriots defense has never had any pass rushers to get to the QB. Brady with weapons is unstoppable...he would of won 5 rings by now if he had any weapons on offense. In the history of the NFL no QB has won more with less hands down on offense. That is not even up for debate, that is an open and shut case! The more I write about Brady the more sick I become, cant stand that bastard but I am only talking the truth. Does anyone understand what he did in the reg season this season? 14-2 with an average team other than himself.....The defense he has sucks balls and very young also. On offense he has no RB and has one WR that got let go by Miami to shine in NE because of Brady. I will take the defenses INDY had anyday over the Patriots defense they had this season. Patriots went 14-2 for 1 reason and 1 reason only, they have the best QB in the NFL today. Yes Manning is great and Rodgers in on a hot streak but as soon as he loses he will be back down to top 5 QB and just another good QB in this league. People talk about QB's as in the present second, you cant really do that when you look at Brady, his whole career is better than any QB in the league. He is the best QB in the last 20 years and I n my mind not up for debate. Everyone hates on him because he is on the Patriots , a pretty boy, and is part of SPYGATE. It alla dds up to absolutely nothing at the end of the day. Montana on the Patriots would not ever win a SB. Brady on the 49ERS those years and he would have rings on both hands. GG

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Re: Is Brady best QB in the NFL?

Postby swampc1 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:59 am

You don't have your facts straight buddy. You must be talking on your perspective instead of the numbers.... let's take a look at relevant years where they were in playoffs together or at least one made it to SB:

DEFENSIVE RANK @ PPG allowed:

2001: NE 6th.......IND 31st

2003: NE 1st........IND 20th

2004: NE 2nd.......IND 19th

2006: NE 2nd......IND 23rd

2007: NE 4th......IND 1st

2009: NE 5th......IND 8th

2010: NE 8th.....IND 23rd (that is THIS YEAR YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT)


So yes, the NE Defense from 2003 to 2007 was one of the best defensive runs in NFL history. The only team that even competed with them as consistantly on a defensive basis was Pittsburgh.

In NE's first playoff run with Brady the Defense never allowed more than 17 in the postseason. And the "great" Brady needed the tuck rule and vinatierri to cheat Oak 16-13... then the offense and BRADY scored 10 vs. pit the following week and the defense special teams chipped in 14 of their own to win 24-17 (Brady was outscored by both the Steelers and his own DEF/ST but he is so great, not the team, right?) Then the Defense handed NE the game against the greatest show on turf in the superbowl.. not brady.

The following year a perfectly healthy Brady could not muster his team to even make the playoffs. How does this happen with such a great and amazing qb? However, Manning had already started his unprecdented runs of playoff appearances that previous year.

NOW lets go to 2003 and see how Awesome Brady is compared to Manning..... well, in Manning's first playoff game his offense blew out Denver and scored 41 pts in the process.... The 2nd round Manning mustered another 38 point job and a win...
Meanwhile with the best Defense in football, Brady manages just 17 pts of offense and once again vinatierri bails out the team with a 4th qtr field goal for the win. Brady was atrocious. His line was 21 -41 201yds and a TD which was for 41 yds. So the rest of his 20 completions were for an avg of 8 yds. Then the 2 teams met in the conf. championship and Vinatierri kicked 5 field goals and the defense was awesome... Now nobody in their right minds would think that if Brady had to play against his top ranked defense that they would have gotten anywhere close to where manning and his 20th ranked defense got. Can you imagine if Manning would have had the luxury of carving up his own defense rather than having to face the best Defense in the NFL? Brady did get to and still relied on vinatierri and the defense. He didn't do much of anything once again.

... and that pattern continued until 2007 when Brady finally put up good numbers. Meanwhile, Manning had made the playoffs every year during that stretch only enjoying a top 20 defense twice in that time.


and on another point, Harrison wasn't amazing until Manning's 2nd year. Harrison's first year was without manning and it was pretty average. Then his second year was during manning's 3-13 Rookie campaign and was again average. Then the 2nd year of Manning's career was when he exploded and subsequently so did Harrison. It wasnt like Harrison was already a star and Manning lucked up into having him. It was quite the other way around.
Take into account that Manning's numbers never go down. Harrison's did. If Harrison was making manning look good then Manning's numbers would have dropped but they didn't. Harrison's did and other's rose. Heck Brandon freakin stokley even had over 1000 yds with Manning!!! Dallas Clark! out of nowhere, but there is nobody else to throw to other than wayne, so Dallas clark becomes a star... ooooops! he gets hurt so insert Tamme the TE. Now he is putting up probowl caliber numbers. No Gonzalez? No problem put in Garcon and make him a star.. oops! now HE is hurt too? Fine Throw in Austin Collie.. ooops! now he is hurt? Fine, throw in a guy named blair white.... it doesnt matter, they still are high powered even with the first, second and 3rd string RBs missing. So Manning put up great numbers with the 2nd, 3rd and 4th WRs injured... the 1st, 2nd and 3rd RBs and the Top TE ALL INJURED. Wow. and you say he has the stars and Brady has nothing? That is absurd. Manning MAKES those players, not the other way around and Brady had a lot more weapons.

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Re: Is Brady best QB in the NFL?

Postby TSBGOD » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:30 am

PPG means shit Swamp... Just like this year the patriots were pretty good on not allowing points but their defense was god awful if you ask me. They gave up more on defense then they gained on offense, when does that ever happen? You are looking at defenses rank but not looking at the players they had on defense. Pittsburgh was way better on defense than the Patriots clearly but Pitt did not have Tom Brady the difference maker in everything. I give up arguing over a guy I cannot stand, I just know he is the best QB in the NFL in the last 25 years....Rings, Record and the least talent on offense of any good QB ever to win SB's and it's not even close.

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Re: Is Brady best QB in the NFL?

Postby cranberrysucks » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:32 am

swampc1 wrote:Many of you laughed at sconnie for saying the pitcher gets wins (while he totally disregarded the defense and hitting behind him).

Many of you are also talking about the QB like he is the only player on the field.

A few things to think about:

1) Brady was totally unspectacular for the first 2 superbowls and was merely a care taker while the defense won it. WAY more so than Big Ben.



Brady wasn't spectacular for quite a few years including those Super Bowls. This isn't the first time anyone thought Brady was overrated, and overrated doesn't mean he isn't good. But Rivers, Manning, and Rodgers are the best in the business if you ask me.


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