bible truth vs myths: are blacks the cursed ?

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bible truth vs myths: are blacks the cursed ?

Postby iceage » Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:46 pm

I remember when I was a kid I went to a small baptist church , it was about 50/50 white and mexican people with a few blacks, I remember the pastor saying that blacks were the descendants of ham, and that they were cursed because ham sodomized his father Noah while he was passed out drunk. that is why they have black skin because Noah said they would be slaves of their brothers.

I'm not to informed with bible literature, but I found what he said to be kind of odd

can anyone explain what he was talking about and what bible verses he gets that from ?

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Re: bible truth vs myths: are blacks the cursed ?

Postby Matlisab » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:00 pm

I know historically, at one point both Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormon's also believed this. They, as well as others, excluded blacks from joining the "church". You are right, they use the the account of Noah and his son's to form this opinion. I'm not sure how they back it with Scripture. The Bible seems to indicate that everyone is in the same boat. Whether black, white, yellow or purple, there is only one race, and it's human. Unless there is a martian in their pocket. All men are equal

Throughout Scripture, specifically the New Testament, all peoples are categorized into two groups. Israel and the Gentiles. While Israel was the chosen nation of God, the Gentiles (every other nation) was given the same provision through the death of God's Son, Jesus Christ. Gentiles (all nations) have now been grafted into the family of God through faith in Jesus Christ.
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Re: bible truth vs myths: are blacks the cursed ?

Postby adobery » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:04 pm

Sorry to hijack, but LOL.

Matlisab wrote:I know historically, at one point both Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormon's also believed this. They, as well as others, excluded blacks from joining the "church". You are right, they use the the account of Noah and his son's to form this opinion. I'm not sure how they back it with Scripture. The Bible seems to indicate that everyone is in the same boat. Whether black, white, yellow or purple, there is only one race, and it's human. Unless there is a martian in their pocket. All men are equal

Throughout Scripture, specifically the New Testament, all peoples are categorized into two groups. Israel and the Gentiles. While Israel was the chosen nation of God, the Gentiles (every other nation) was given the same provision through the death of God's Son, Jesus Christ. Gentiles (all nations) have now been grafted into the family of God through faith in Jesus Christ.

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Re: bible truth vs myths: are blacks the cursed ?

Postby Matlisab » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:18 pm

adobery wrote:Sorry to hijack, but LOL.

Matlisab wrote:I know historically, at one point both Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormon's also believed this. They, as well as others, excluded blacks from joining the "church". You are right, they use the the account of Noah and his son's to form this opinion. I'm not sure how they back it with Scripture. The Bible seems to indicate that everyone is in the same boat. Whether black, white, yellow or purple, there is only one race, and it's human. Unless there is a martian in their pocket. All men are equal

Throughout Scripture, specifically the New Testament, all peoples are categorized into two groups. Israel and the Gentiles. While Israel was the chosen nation of God, the Gentiles (every other nation) was given the same provision through the death of God's Son, Jesus Christ. Gentiles (all nations) have now been grafted into the family of God through faith in Jesus Christ.


Lol, err... pun not intended
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Re: bible truth vs myths: are blacks the cursed ?

Postby brookstonfowler » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:20 am

Not sure about JW's, but just to clarify Mormons have always allowed blacks to join the church. in fact, joseph smith, the founder of Mormonism, was often found vying for black slaves and encouraging their freedom if it didn't endanger the life of the man or woman. blacks were not given the privilege of receiving the priesthood until the early 1970's, but they have always been accepted in full fellowship as members from the beginning of the church in the early 1800's.
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Re: bible truth vs myths: are blacks the cursed ?

Postby Matlisab » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:49 am

I'm not completely fluent in the Mormon doctrine, you would be much more studied up on it than I would. I know presently, Mormons, show a great affection to all races. Reading some of their readings from their prophets in the past, I thought it was historically different. I'm also not completely familiar with the difference between being allowed to join the church and the priesthood. I thought every born again believer joined the body (the church) of Christ and that every believer is a priest. Here are a few selections from Mormon writings, this is largely what made me conclude what I did in my first post.

“But let them apostatize, and they will become gray-haired, wrinkled, and black, just like the Devil" (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 332

There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantages. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient; more or less, to the laws that were given us there. Those who were faithful in all things there [pre-existence] received greater blessings here, and those who were not faithful received less. . . . There were no neutrals in the war in Heaven. All took sides either with Christ or with Satan. Every man had his agency there, and men receive rewards here based upon their actions there, just as they will receive rewards hereafter for deeds done in the body. The Negro, evidently, is receiving the reward he merits (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:61, 65-66).

Those who were less valiant in pre-existence and who thereby had certain spiritual restrictions impose on them during mortality are known to us as the negroes. Such spirits are sent to earth through the lineage of Cain, the mark put upon him for his rebellion against God, and his murder of Able being a black skin. . . . Noah's son married Egyptus, a descendant of Cain, thus preserving the negro lineage through the flood. . . . the negro are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concern. . . . " (Mormon Doctrine, 527-28; 1966 orig. ed., changed in the current ed).

Had I anything to do with the negro, I would confine them by strict law to their own species, and put them on a national equalization" (Joseph Fielding Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 270; History of the Church, 5: 218).

You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind. . . . Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which was the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another cursed is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the "servants of servants;" and they will be until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree (Journal of Discourses, 7:290)

Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be (ibid., 10:110)
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Re: bible truth vs myths: are blacks the cursed ?

Postby brookstonfowler » Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:21 am

in all religions there will be opinion and doctrine. i'm not trying to say that blacks are or are not cursed or that Mormons believe one way or the other. it appears as though, a few of the early Mormon leaders had strong opinions on the matter, and i don't feel like playing apologist for them. i don't know or care, frankly, one way or the other about it. maybe blacks are cursed by God, maybe they aren't. there is something to be said about people of different cultures and races pulling together that forms a sense of unity and strength, but as in all things, God sees everyone as equal and has a different plan for each one of us. all i'm saying is that Mormon doctrine acknowledges blacks as children of God, and that they are welcome in His church and among His chosen people through adoption like the rest of us gentiles.
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