Who believes in GOD?

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justinpeters51
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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby justinpeters51 » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:33 pm

I dont think its apples to oranges, I think that was the most brilliant point that has ever been made. But your argument TSB is spot on, the bible even says that. I read just last night in 1 Peter how it talks about you don't see Him but you love him. Also in Hebrews it says we walk by faith not by sight. I think you are beating a dead horse, yes, I worship an invisible God who cannot be physically touched or physically seen. I love it!!!!!!!!!!!!


O check this, I just had some more brilliance! Watch this: There is proof of God. Tons of it! Look at the clouds he made them, Look at the sun, the moon and stars, he made them. Look at your NE Pats Tom Brady, God made him! Look at the trees, they are his work also!

FYI I know that you will never buy that argument. But I am still a genius.

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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby TSBGOD » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:39 pm

LOL. ....

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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby Bo... » Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:23 pm

justinpeters51 wrote:I will give you that about Washington, there is prolly some very compelling evidence. My point i guess is if we were to dissect everything you believe about history i bet we could find something that you believe based on hearing it from your 4th grade text book or your 10th grade teacher, something you don't really know all the detail about but you still believe it happened.


No, we don't still believe it. What happens when we find new evidence is we change our minds. That's how science and history work. With holy books, people just go, oh my magic book was wrong about that? Oh well, I can't hear you, I still believe, lalala.
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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby justinpeters51 » Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:20 pm

Bo... wrote:
justinpeters51 wrote:I will give you that about Washington, there is prolly some very compelling evidence. My point i guess is if we were to dissect everything you believe about history i bet we could find something that you believe based on hearing it from your 4th grade text book or your 10th grade teacher, something you don't really know all the detail about but you still believe it happened.


No, we don't still believe it. What happens when we find new evidence is we change our minds. That's how science and history work. With holy books, people just go, oh my magic book was wrong about that? Oh well, I can't hear you, I still believe, lalala.


I get your point you made there but my post had nothing to do with that. I am not arguing you wont change your mind if you get new evidence about anything. What I am saying is that right now there has to be something you believe that you just heard from a book or a person or something like that. You cant be truly telling me that everything you believe about history, science, nature, ect has been studied down to the detail to exactly how it came to be?

NOW, I am not saying you wouldn't change your mind, if you found something of fact to change a belief I'm just saying everybody has things they believe cause they heard it from someone, it can range from something very very small (Grandma was the best baker in the county back in 1915) to something very large (Jesus is the son of God). I don't know how you can possibly deny that.

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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby justinpeters51 » Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:26 pm

Bo... wrote:
justinpeters51 wrote:I will give you that about Washington, there is prolly some very compelling evidence. My point i guess is if we were to dissect everything you believe about history i bet we could find something that you believe based on hearing it from your 4th grade text book or your 10th grade teacher, something you don't really know all the detail about but you still believe it happened.


No, we don't still believe it. What happens when we find new evidence is we change our minds. That's how science and history work. With holy books, people just go, oh my magic book was wrong about that? Oh well, I can't hear you, I still believe, lalala.


But you are right about religious people, you can try to show them something and they will still believe. You can try to show non believing people something and they will not believe.

I just posted earlier in a post that I experienced and saw physical healing in my body and in close friends... Miraculous healing. and not a single word was said about it? I know you chalk it up to me being a religious fanatic who makes up things to try to get people to believe. I cant imagine someone on a tecmo super bowl chat board trying to make up stuff to get people to believe in God. But that evidence I saw and experienced has a large part to do with why I believe so strongly.

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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby regulator088 » Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:46 pm

So, here is a different perspective on how to prove God exists IMO of course. If people believe in evolution, then you are a believer that the best models of life are formed over time. Each animal is adaptive to their own environment in which they thrive. It has been this way for literally millions of years. Survival of the fittest within each animals habitat if you will. Fast forward to Humans. In no point in history has nature created or evolved an animal to have FREE WILL. Some of you may argue that animals make choices all the time, and constitute this to free will. It's not, and here's why. An animal cannot choose to purposefully hurt itself or kill itself like a human can. A lion cannot get together with other lions and choose to declare war on giraffes and kill them without purpose. You get my point. Evolution or "mother nature" does not create things with free will. Free Will is not evolved. At some point in time, free will was given to humans. It didn't formulate out of thin air. Hence, there has to be a higher power which instilled that into us.

Another simpler version of proving a "higher power" exists is that something comes from something. A rock didn't create itself. The Earth didn't create itself. The galaxy didn't create itself. The universe didn't create itself..... it had to come from something. It didn't just appear one day. Something had to start it. The big bang theory you say? Someone had to create the mass of matter that turned into everything. Something never comes from nothing.
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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby TSBGOD » Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:45 pm

Yes, but that does not mean it is a "GOD" . Higher power could be aliens, or anything for that matter. I am talking about our GOD. We will never know, but there is no 100% facts that there is a God . Those are just the facts man.

Higher power, and God, two differents things :)

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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby Bo... » Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:47 pm

Justin, miraculous healing is just another way of saying science doesn't know yet. It's the classic god of the gaps. We don't know why this happened, so it must be god. There's plenty of things about medicine that we know now that people used to think were miracles. Just because you saw something you can't explain doesn't mean it's god.

Regulator, that's actually not how evolution works. That's a common misperception. Evolution is actually pretty random. Genetic mutation occurs randomly. Changes that don't benefit are not passed on because those organisms die out, changes that end up helping are passed on because the organisms survive. Also, free will is evident in plenty of other species. Other primates can make tools, have complex social structures, and even make war on each other. It's not exclusive to humans. Polar bears have been seen killing when they were not hungry, for the sheer pleasure of it. Hell, my cat has skin problems and has scratched herself until she's bled, so she is choosing to harm herself. I stop her from scratching and she stops, it seems like she kind of gets that she's hurting herself. She does it anyway like a human scratching a bug bite until it bleeds. I already addressed your second argument, saying it all had to come from somewhere doesn't explain where god came from. If you can't believe the universe always existed, why do you believe god always existed? Who created god?
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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby justinpeters51 » Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:56 pm

Bo... wrote:Justin, miraculous healing is just another way of saying science doesn't know yet. It's the classic god of the gaps. We don't know why this happened, so it must be god. There's plenty of things about medicine that we know now that people used to think were miracles. Just because you saw something you can't explain doesn't mean it's god.

Regulator, that's actually not how evolution works. That's a common misperception. Evolution is actually pretty random. Genetic mutation occurs randomly. Changes that don't benefit are not passed on because those organisms die out, changes that end up helping are passed on because the organisms survive. Also, free will is evident in plenty of other species. Other primates can make tools, have complex social structures, and even make war on each other. It's not exclusive to humans. Polar bears have been seen killing when they were not hungry, for the sheer pleasure of it. Hell, my cat has skin problems and has scratched herself until she's bled, so she is choosing to harm herself. I stop her from scratching and she stops, it seems like she kind of gets that she's hurting herself. She does it anyway like a human scratching a bug bite until it bleeds. I already addressed your second argument, saying it all had to come from somewhere doesn't explain where god came from. If you can't believe the universe always existed, why do you believe god always existed? Who created god?



In regards to the response to my post I say "Fair Enough."

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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby clarkham » Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:16 am

Great point, Bo. Something can never come from nothing. You said it, Regulator. So where did God come from then?

And indeed what you said about revolution, free will,.and other animals being incapable of pleasurably hurting others was a big swing and a miss. On top of what Bo said, I think there has also been some accounts of animals committing suicide. I know there is other species that have sex for pleasure, and not just for reproduction. Lovebugs, maybe?
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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby Bo... » Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:25 am

I never researched animal suicide before, but a quick google search shows there are many reports. Apparently Flipper killed herself, among others. That Chinese thing with the bear bile sounds gross on all levels: http://www.oddee.com/item_98725.aspx
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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby LuckyTool » Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:31 pm

By what we have observed of our physical existence, there isn't anything that gets created from nothing. This leads me to believe there must be something to existence outside what we can physically perceive. As far as the rules outside of our physical existence: who knows? It may be a very different ball game than what we are playing. So "nothing can come from nothing" may not hold in exactly the same way when we're talking about God.

Do you believe there is nothing more to existence than what is physically tangible? If so, why should we believe that?

Either way, I think the real mistake is to not wonder about this question at all. Whatever side of the fence you end up on, it's pretty fascinating.
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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby Bo... » Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:25 pm

I don't have a problem with wondering, I wonder all the time. What I have a problem with is teaching your children, "There is one God and you must worship and obey him or you will burn in hell for eternity." This was drilled into me from first grade to eighth grade and that is very very wrong. And that's how most religions work.
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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby TSBGOD » Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:34 pm

Bo... wrote:I don't have a problem with wondering, I wonder all the time. What I have a problem with is teaching your children, "There is one God and you must worship and obey him or you will burn in hell for eternity." This was drilled into me from first grade to eighth grade and that is very very wrong. And that's how most religions work.


Totally agree, same happened with me. It is a form of brainwashing.

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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby clarkham » Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:43 am

Except brainwashing, by definition, includes a component of radicalism. Religion and the belief of God are from radical. They're actually pretty common.

You know you can make good arguments without using such outlandish, piercing, and often juvenile statements, right? You're kind of making us other skeptics look bad.
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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby LuckyTool » Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:35 am

You do come off as condescending. If anything you're oversimplifying the situation and disrespecting people of faith (i.e. we're too dense to overcome our brainwashing and see the light).
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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby TSBGOD » Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:35 am

:like:....Just the facts man.

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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby ziurziur » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:25 pm

Very interesting stuff on this board, I think it comes down to having some experience with God, maybe we are in some sort of trouble and we need help and we say a prayer and the prayer gets answered, then God becomes more real.

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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby ziurziur » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:43 pm

"What I have a problem with is teaching your children, "There is one God and you must worship and obey him or you will burn in hell for eternity." This was drilled into me from first grade to eighth grade and that is very very wrong. And that's how most religions work."


Ill try to respond to this very common comment.

Ill put it in very simple terms. The reason why we are condemned according to the bible for not worshipping Jesus, or believing on Jesus is because through his death, burial and resurrection we have forgiveness of sin, sin condemns us, but if we are forgiven then we are no longer condemned.
Rom. 6:23, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord"

If we don't believe in Jesus then we are rejecting his offer, he offers forgiveness of sins, hence salvation, eternal life.
I'll provide a simple illustration, if we are swimming at the beach and we begin to drown, and the lifeguard comes to rescue us and we decline his help/salvation and we drown and die, whos fault is it? Jesus is the life guard trying to save us from our sins and that's why if we don't believe in him we are lost/drown, dead, condemned.

If we accept the lifeguard's help and he saves us, wouldn't we be grateful and appreciative of him/her? That's why we should be grateful and thankful that Jesus died and resurrected to save humanity from eternal damnation. Hell was made for the devil and not humanity, that was the original design of it.
Rev. 20:10, "And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby TSBGOD » Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:04 pm

We will know when the day comes......

Brainwashed, or not brainwashed.

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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby regulator088 » Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:26 pm

Bo... wrote:
Regulator, that's actually not how evolution works. That's a common misperception. Evolution is actually pretty random. Genetic mutation occurs randomly (EVOLUTION). Changes that don't benefit are not passed on because those organisms die out, changes that end up helping are passed on because the organisms survive (Survival of the fittest). Also, free will is evident in plenty of other species. Other primates can make tools, have complex social structures, and even make war on each other (You are confusing free will. This is not free will, apes cannot choose to kill themselves because they are depressed). It's not exclusive to humans. Polar bears have been seen killing when they were not hungry, for the sheer pleasure of it . Hell, my cat has skin problems and has scratched herself until she's bled, so she is choosing to harm herself (Your cat does not possess the capability to choose not to itch as evident by her doing it and causing herself harm. She feels an itch and itches, basic animal instinct). I stop her from scratching and she stops, it seems like she kind of gets that she's hurting herself. She does it anyway like a human scratching a bug bite until it bleeds. I already addressed your second argument, saying it all had to come from somewhere doesn't explain where god came from. If you can't believe the universe always existed, why do you believe god always existed? Who created god? (The typical response to my comment, but still doesn't answer where the universe came from. The universe is physical matter, and physical matter does not create itself)
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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby ziurziur » Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:41 pm

Waiting till death to find out will be too late to repent of our sins....

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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby oklahoma » Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:50 pm


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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby TSBGOD » Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:11 pm

ziurziur wrote:Waiting till death to find out will be too late to repent of our sins....


You do not know that. A book says that. Who knows if that is real. Hopefully it is :)


I REPENT RIGHT NOW FOR ALL MY SINS! I AM IN! YAY!

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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby TSBGOD » Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:13 pm

oklahoma wrote:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pCwk7pP80Z0


I have not laughed this hard in a long time...Especially the thread this is in :)


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