Who believes in GOD?

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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby clarkham » Sat May 18, 2013 5:25 am

Do you believe that George Washington was the first president on the United States?

Prove it.

No, don't. You can't. And we're past this. I don't believe in "God" in the way that most Christians do either. I don't know why you keep using his name. I simply believe in a sort of spiritual force that guides what goes on here - that I am not in charge. And when I finally accepted this and let go of the selfishness and need to control things, life got much better. That for me is proof enough that some sort of higher power is out there. You don't have to be able to see or touch something to prove that it exists.

And who said that he (if he exists) reveals himself at death anyways? I always wondered about that. He still may not, and we still may be having this debate in the after world.
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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby Matlisab » Sun May 19, 2013 4:20 am

TSBGOD wrote:What about the million others that could not kick the addiction? Did God help them? Don't be silly, you kick your habit because of will, nothing to do with God. He is great, but you do it on your own. He does not pick and chooses who he helps, let's get real here. It's all good and dandy If you let God in to your life and your strong belief helped you with your addiction but to say he helped you would be false IMO.


God chooses how He will be honored or glorified. The reason He allows sin (in this case addiction) is to show us our emptiness and our genuine need of Him. We are all sinful, spiritually bankrupt individuals who need reconciliation to God because of our sinfulness. Often times He allows certain individuals to go through difficult circumstances so they confess their self righteousness and inability and cling to Jesus Christ. The Bible teaches that anyone who is able to overcome any sin (addiction in this case) is enabled to do so by God Himself. Even unbelievers are directed and lead by God (often through circumstances and difficult trials) to turn from wrong choices. And it's not a matter of "letting" God into your life. There is some essence of the human response to God, but God doesn't get "let" in the down, He knocks it down by Himself.

discdolo wrote:Prayer and the repetition is similar to meditation practice, to touch on your psychological stance on prayer Chek.. Once again no one has died and come back to tell us what happens after we die (not even Jesus!!)


Prayer is an active ongoing dependent act of communication between a person and God. Often people's perception of prayer is skewed because of their exposure to Catholicism and their unbiblical repetition in memorized prayers. Meditation is a passive act where an individual is attempting to "free their mind" and step out of conscientiousness. They are very different. As mentioned by a couple others, Jesus Christ in fact had a literal, physical resurrection from the dead. He was seen by hundreds of witnesses and it is also historically documented in the Gospels in the New Testament.

chekreyes wrote:Do you believe that George Washington was the first president on the United States?

Prove it.

No, don't. You can't. And we're past this. I don't believe in "God" in the way that most Christians do either. I don't know why you keep using his name. I simply believe in a sort of spiritual force that guides what goes on here - that I am not in charge. And when I finally accepted this and let go of the selfishness and need to control things, life got much better. That for me is proof enough that some sort of higher power is out there. You don't have to be able to see or touch something to prove that it exists.

And who said that he (if he exists) reveals himself at death anyways? I always wondered about that. He still may not, and we still may be having this debate in the after world.


I get how you are approaching this. It's splitting hairs, but a better illustration may be, "What did you eat for lunch yesterday, prove it" There are a great number of resources on the difference between objective and subjective evidence. Most of them are secular, but basic legal books are a great resource. I'd recommend two books that use this logic. "More than a Carpenter" by Josh McDowell and "The Case for Christ", I can't remember who wrote it.

I agree with you that we are not in charge and God sovereignly works all things for His glory and honor. But I'm curious to what "God" you ascribe to if you say you do not believe in the God that most Christians do. Christians are called Christians because they follow the Person of Jesus Christ and what His Word has to say about God. (Yes I understand many use the name but do not ascribe to the genuine worship or doctrine of the Scriptures) I'm not attacking, I'm just curious. I've enjoyed reading some of your responses. It's cool to hear a little about God's working in your life.

As far as your last question. The New Testament specifically says that all people (all meaning everyone) will stand before Jesus Christ one day.

2 Cor. 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Revelation 22:3-4 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him. And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

There are more, but these came to the top of my head. Have a good night.
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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby Matlisab » Sun May 19, 2013 4:28 am

TSBGOD wrote:I am torn as in if there is a God that is amongst us or not. I do respect you beliefs Justin, just to make that clear.

I never want to sound ignorant when I am talking on this subject and do not like to offend anyone about religion or their beliefs. Just trying to be honest on what I believe in. I 100% hope there is an afterlife :)



I think if you actively seek God (prayer, reading the Scriptures, deep thinking) He will reveal Himself to you. In the Old Testament, God says through one of His prophets, "You will find me, when you seek for me with all your heart." It's not that He is hidden, He is waiting for you to recognize your need of Him. Your hope of an after life can transfer to genuine and humble assurance.
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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby clarkham » Sun May 19, 2013 5:36 am

I was just using "most Christians" as a generic term. The better term probably would have been "Westerners" or "those in the Western world".

Interesting stuff.
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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby TSBGOD » Sun May 19, 2013 12:07 pm

Matlisab wrote:
TSBGOD wrote:I am torn as in if there is a God that is amongst us or not. I do respect you beliefs Justin, just to make that clear.

I never want to sound ignorant when I am talking on this subject and do not like to offend anyone about religion or their beliefs. Just trying to be honest on what I believe in. I 100% hope there is an afterlife :)



I think if you actively seek God (prayer, reading the Scriptures, deep thinking) He will reveal Himself to you. In the Old Testament, God says through one of His prophets, "You will find me, when you seek for me with all your heart." It's not that He is hidden, He is waiting for you to recognize your need of Him. Your hope of an after life can transfer to genuine and humble assurance.



Many have already found God and still have not kicked the addiction. It is a belief, we will not know until the afterlife, maybe we will never know :) It's like saying everyone who kicked the addiction and stayed clean found God. This is bullshit, It's will power, determination, and friends and family most of the time. Let's not try and convince someone it's God that has helped most addicts kick the addiction. Let's just be real here :)

Nobody is going to reveal himself to me ....

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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby Matlisab » Sun May 19, 2013 6:24 pm

TSBGOD wrote:
Matlisab wrote:
TSBGOD wrote:I am torn as in if there is a God that is amongst us or not. I do respect you beliefs Justin, just to make that clear.

I never want to sound ignorant when I am talking on this subject and do not like to offend anyone about religion or their beliefs. Just trying to be honest on what I believe in. I 100% hope there is an afterlife :)



I think if you actively seek God (prayer, reading the Scriptures, deep thinking) He will reveal Himself to you. In the Old Testament, God says through one of His prophets, "You will find me, when you seek for me with all your heart." It's not that He is hidden, He is waiting for you to recognize your need of Him. Your hope of an after life can transfer to genuine and humble assurance.



Many have already found God and still have not kicked the addiction. It is a belief, we will not know until the afterlife, maybe we will never know :) It's like saying everyone who kicked the addiction and stayed clean found God. This is bullshit, It's will power, determination, and friends and family most of the time. Let's not try and convince someone it's God that has helped most addicts kick the addiction. Let's just be real here :)

Nobody is going to reveal himself to me ....


Yes, many have trusted in Jesus Christ and still struggle with addictions. Christians, even though they are given a new heart, struggle with sin and issues (like addiction) for the rest of their life. Some obtain victory of certain sins, but we all struggle with sin the rest of our life until Heaven. If you following the conversation, no one is suggesting that everyone who stayed clean found God. But rather, everyone who stayed clean has been aided by God's grace in their life. They've been enabled (believer or unbeliever) to not succumb to it. The things you list (will power, determination, friends and family) are all instruments that God uses in people's life. The Scriptures teach that anything someone has (will power, determination, friends and family) it is a gift from Him. I don't need to convince anyone that God is behind it all, He's there whether you choose to accept it or not.
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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby clarkham » Sun May 19, 2013 7:01 pm

TSBGOD wrote:
Nobody is going to reveal himself to me ....


Your choice.
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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby Matlisab » Mon May 20, 2013 2:46 am

chekreyes wrote:
TSBGOD wrote:
Nobody is going to reveal himself to me ....


Your choice.


Actually, the Bible says the choice is not ours when it comes to God revealing Himself.

Romans 1 says He's already revealed some of His character to the entire world through creation.

Matthew 16:17 Jesus says that only God the Father reveals the Person of Christ to people, not man

John 6 Says that no one comes to the Father unless they are first drawn by Him.


God freely reveals Himself,specifically through the Word of God, it's people who either affirm or deny His revelation.
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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby clarkham » Mon May 20, 2013 4:02 am

Right, right. Okay. You're kind of playing semantics again though. TSBGod was basically saying that he refuses to believe that there is an active God (because he can't be "proven"). I was simply saying that this was his choice. You can try to convince him otherwise, and I commend you for that, but that's not my style.
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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby Matlisab » Mon May 20, 2013 5:23 am

chekreyes wrote:Right, right. Okay. You're kind of playing semantics again though. TSBGod was basically saying that he refuses to believe that there is an active God (because he can't be "proven"). I was simply saying that this was his choice. You can try to convince him otherwise, and I commend you for that, but that's not my style.


I misunderstood what you were saying was the choice. Mark it down as a lack of reading comprehension on my part. Sorry.

I wouldn't say convince, but I'll certainly engage the conversation as I'm biblically mandated to. I'd love to see everyone here respond in saving faith to the Person and Work of Jesus Christ. So I take opportunity when it is given.
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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby TSBGOD » Mon May 20, 2013 12:12 pm

Reverend has entered the building...stay back!

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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby ziurziur » Sun May 17, 2015 3:54 am

Justin Peters you wrote the best answer so far. The way you did it is the way to know God. Through reading the Bible and having personal experiences with him. I'm glad your life has been transformed for the better. I would definitely recommend going to church.

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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby TSBGOD » Sun May 17, 2015 4:19 am

LOL

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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby TSBGOD » Sun May 17, 2015 5:08 am

This topic was a great one. Anyone see God lately? Anyone get helped latley? LOL


Please post any times God helps you in the future.

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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby TSBGOD » Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:01 pm

arncoem wrote:the fact that God is a name in itself is reason enough to beleive he/it exists.
Wouldn't have a name if was no such thing


Santa Claus ring a bell?

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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby Bo... » Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:31 pm

To everyone who believes in a god, try this little thought experiment. Imagine you were taken as a baby and raised on a deserted island. Everything you need to survive is provided, food, shelter, and so on. You are raised with a completely modern education, taught to read and write, taught math. You learn all the sciences. You're taught chemistry, physics, evolution, astronomy, biology, modern medicine, and so on. All kinds of fiction and nonfiction books are provided for you to read, classics of literature, modern novels, philosophy, psychology, history. There is just one exception. You are told nothing about religion or any gods. You are given nothing that says anything about any religion or myth. Then on your 21st birthday you are given a bible, told to read it and say what you think about it. I think every single person put in this situation would think it was fiction. If you were then told that hundreds of millions of people believe the stuff in that book actually happened, that there actually is a god, you would laugh and think the whole world was insane. That is the problem with religion, those books can not stand up by themselves. No person in their right mind would read a holy book and think it was true. In order for you all to believe, you had to be indoctrinated or brainwashed from the time you were a young child. And it's not done in a nice way, even to children. They don't just hand a child a bible and say, start reading this and let me know what you think. No, it's drilled into you. You get nuns hitting your knuckles with rulers, and priests standing in front of crowds preaching hellfire and damnation. "You must believe this or you will burn for eternity!" It's very hard to psychologically overcome that kind of brainwashing. It's not a decision I came to lightly. I was raised Greek Orthodox and forced to go to church and Sunday school from first grade to eighth grade. It took me years to overcome the brainwashing of religion. That's why I'm an atheist and I think all religions are horrible and dangerous.
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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby TSBGOD » Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:52 pm

Interesting post, but can see where you are coming from.

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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby clarkham » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:33 am

You don't have to believe in the bible to believe in a god. You don't have to believe in religions, church, and what churches do to believe in a god. You don't have to believe in Jesus to believe in a god.

To start with "to everyone who believes in a god, try this..." and end with the "Bible" and "church" is a majorly faulty experiment, Bo.
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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby swampc1 » Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:14 am

The premise though Bo is fantasy.

Can you name a civilization that had ever been in which people naturally had no religion? Every civilization had or has some sort of religion. Why does every culture and every civilization (even those removed or remote) have some sort of religion but none is naturally atheist?

That is just as far a reach as someone saying "atheists, close your eyes and picture the God that created you. There is GOD - just think of the miracle of sight! It would be absurd to think that something like vision, in which you have lenses in your eye that refract light at perfect angles and have your mind turn them around and grasp what is in sight without you physically touching it......"

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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby TSBGOD » Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:50 pm

Is that you argument Swamp? There has to be a God, due to things like this?


REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLy? LOL

The fact is...We really do not know. We have our beliefs, but we can not be certain that there is a God.

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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby Bo... » Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:25 pm

Clarkham, I should have clarified. I was using the bible as an example, but it could be any holy book. That is the only place religions come from, holy books. That is the only place a belief in god comes from. They may have started out as oral traditions, but everyone who currently believes in gods got that belief from a holy book, unless they're some tribe time forgot in a jungle somewhere. My point was if you take any holy book on its own merits, without the brainwashing that you received from a religious leader starting when you were a child, no educated adult in their right mind would take that stuff seriously.

Swamp, religions started because people were uneducated. My whole premise rests on giving a holy book to an adult with a modern education. Primitive people didn't know where the sun and other stars came from, they couldn't explain lightning, or rain, or anything about the world in which they lived. They created gods to explain those things. We understand most of the natural world now so we no longer need to believe in gods.
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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby clarkham » Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:17 pm

Bo, I love your point about holy books having more value in a world where we didn't know much about science. That's why there were good then, but maybe not now. I never thought of it quite that way.

However, it is still incorrect to say that everybody's belief in a god comes from a holy book... or brainwashing from a church...or a jungle tribe.
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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby TSBGOD » Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:29 pm

Bo is 100% right. That is where it comes from. It is also a form of brainwashing , since nobody knows it is real.

OK..maybe 99% where everybody gets it from.

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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby LuckyTool » Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:36 pm

You could make the same argument about science. If you're taught nothing about science until you're 21 and then given a biology book you'd think it was crazy. But if you're educated about it throughout your upbringing then it makes sense.

Why is there anything at all? Scientists haven't been able to figure that one out. Is there something to existence outside the realm of what we can physically perceive (what may be studied with the scientific method)? If yes, then a deity is not a crazy notion.
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Re: Who believes in GOD?

Postby clarkham » Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:23 am

Lol. So is he 100% right TSBGod, or 99% right? You crack me up.
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